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Saturday, November 10, 2007

What precisely is the point, Mr God? : Cassus Belli



I've rambled recently on about Dawkins and all that jazz, so I want to wrap that up by rambling a bit on a more general take on argumentation and God.

Lately, we've seen over here how action as born of speech forms our highest expression, to wit: "The future of mankind depends on our capacity to exercise this thought, to use it as the foundation for speech, by which to determine the action we should take."

Thought must be the foundation of communication, thus speech, thus the formal and/or inter-personal action that we take (which must be nearly all action, we are a social species after all - action that has no effect on anything outside the actor can hardly be considered worth accounting). So I've been told that speech/communication serves as a guide for how we take action, but I as see it, speech also serves a facilitator of action because without explaining our actions, documenting them, translating our intent for them, we circumscribe our ability to act by failing to be cooperative. This is why the public forum, the ear of the masses, is so important. Power comes from people, the power to act and act upon.

But as I said in the previously (post on Dawkins) its hard to get everyone to listen. How do you communicate about your actions in broadcast? Context is vital to communication, and incredibly difficult to convey. Its inherently hard to even define context, just look at the research on ubiquitous computing, where context is everything.

We need big ideas to anchor our little lives - massive, all encompassing concepts that change little with time, distance, frequency of repetition (chinese whispers). All communication requires analogy since people cannot share what is in their heads directly (is my colour green the same as your colour green?). Analogy requires reference points or measures with associated plausibility or truth-value, since without reference to source knowledge the analogy reverts to unsupported assertion (is my 'big as a house' the same as your 'big as a house'? Probably not, I live in a flat :D BUT seriously, one needs *at least* knowledge of the margins for variability).

In context of the post title, can you see where I'm going with this? High Rennaissance art had a very limited subject range, but vast variety of scenes, models and constant revolution in execution. Still, everyone knew what was being talked about when they saw a woman with a babe in arms, whether she's sitting on a throne or on some rocks by the sea.

In truth, it is no small thing to establish immutable truths (see what I did there? :D ). We can, of course, say there is no big 'T' truth. So that rules out universal points of agreement - one can always deny someone elses truth, if necessary from a solipsist standpoint. But still, the story doesn't end there - because we must avoid that very solipsist standpoint in order to maintain functional existence. Solipsism is an absolute stance - there are no half-measures. And it also seems rather untenable to me - if it is true that only my own thoughts exist, then I can have no relationship with anything else and must conclude that the thoughts themselves are quite of suspect existence - why are they occurring if there is nothing to think about? Oblivion beckons. If there is anything to think about,that's a point of reference outside oneself, which is not true solipsism and forces one to admit that the rest might as well exist as well.
From another viewpoint, if there is no objective truth, how can one dismiss anything as not being true since one has no grounds for comparative judgment?

My point is - there is no big 'T' truth, since we only exist in relation to anything else through application of our consciousness, which is an approximation model at best. So what possible use can one find for the truth concept? Well one can apply it as a working guide - with an inherent plausibility - to whatever can be demonstrated to offer a repeatable framework for one's consciousness model.
Then all truth is relative, relative to the degree to which one can personally understand it (as demonstrated), otherwise one is taking it on faith. For instance, I personally believe that Newtonian mechanics hold true, because (for example) when I run into a wall, I hit it and it hits me back equally hard. Once I can stand up and think again, I don't have to think very hard about the principle of the Third Law to see that it described the actions of the model that I call my perception/memory of the reality of what just happened, namely, running into the wall (I have done similar, alcohol was involved :D). In fact, I don't think about it at all, but that's because the Third Law was encountered years ago in school and assimilated once reason was satisfied that evidence supported it.
It doesn't have to be held true - in fact, this is a very rough approximation model indeed, as Newton stated the third law within a world-view that assumed instantaneous action at a distance between material particles. The wall doesn't really effect an equal force on me in the instant I hit it - it's more like a wave effect of forces on particles that the wall and I are composed of. In modern physics, action at a distance has been completely eliminated, except for subtle effects involving quantum entanglement. But it is a close enough approximation model - it is true enough - that it suffices for communication of related concepts in the everyday.

The degree of faith that one has in the model's universality determines its utility as a tool for communication. I suppose that is one reason why God(s) is(are) so popular, and so divisive - when you believe in the absolute, it makes the reference point absolutely clear; but if you realise that another's God reference has a different value, nothing can be communicated that depends on these reference points. Then it seems that historically the usual reaction is: one of you has to go!

**************************************
To paraphrase Huizinga, 'Its not the cheater who ruins the game, but the player who refuses to recognise the rules...'
This applies to what we're saying here with the (I think) relatively recent emergence of atheism as a tenable and respectable metaphysical position. And it's not atheism in the strict sense of the definition, since people have been denying each other's gods forever. It is rather, when someone stands aside from the metaphysical bedrock of the argument, and calls it scotch mist, that the communication really breaks down. Now the game is not even being admitted on its own terms!
It must (have) look(ed), to those who have true faith, kind of like Jack Thompson looks to game developers:
"You're developing mass-murder training tools!"
"No we're not, we're just entertaining people?"

Except the atheists would be saying
"You're mass murdering delusional zealots!"
"No, we're just saving people's souls"

And that is essentially where my ramblings are leading - atheism poses the unique threat to established religion of making it socially acceptable to do away with communication references to the absolutes that the religions deal with. Perhaps this is scientists, not priests/sages/soothsayers, are now the holders of all human wisdom and advisors to the powerful.
This shouldn't bother the faithful if they are not great espousers of organised religion, but it seems to anyway, perhaps because everyone wants to cheer for their team. Likewise, religion should never have been a threat to the pursuit of scientific knowledge, but perhaps its unsurprising that it has become so - because ever since quantum physics, science has not proven all that satisfactory in replacing religion with a clear and unchanging absolute reference framework.
And as the 'Truth' shifts about, communication becomes more ephemeral and people must adapt. Some people, they just don't like to adapt!

7 comments:

Kris McGlinn said...

Without universal truths all we need is for each individual to become a self directed autonomous being who acts in the interest of everyone (or if you are into the whole game theory thing, hope that each individuals strategy results in a happy equilibrium)...then the free market can see to meeting our deepest dreams and desires...like "Jimmy Deans pancakes and sausage on a stick" http://www.junkfoodblog.com/2006/07/jimmy-dean-chocolate-chip-pancakes.html

Unknown said...

Such equilibrium-seeking agents require perfect domain knowledge to obtain a steady state, do they not? If they haven't got perfect knowledge, then the free market paradigm cannot suceed to produce equilibrium even if the agents desire it. You need Economics 2.0!

nomad said...

Perfect but not complete... just careful you don't put them out of their comfort zone.

Yet among scientists there are few that are free of the belief of universal truth. Don't disturb my circles or the theory comes apart! Scientific dogma hasn't progressed as much from the days of Galileo as we sometimes like to believe.. or have I missed your point here?

Perhaps summa summarum: Reference points help. Understanding them as just that helps too.

:P

PS your word verification hates me

Unknown said...

Sorry about the word verification. It's technology run rampant!

"Reference points help. Understanding them as just that helps too."

Yes, yes indeed. It is always helpful to recognise the model for what it is, especially if that allows one to discern the gaps in the structure, and perhaps broaden the model a bit. I wonder if this is what non-algorithmic thinking is like - Penrose's 'insight, ingenuity and inspiration'.

Kris McGlinn said...

"Such equilibrium-seeking agents require perfect domain knowledge to obtain a steady state, do they not?" Indeed and isn't that the point (as you say Nomad)?

Atheists do not believe in god. But there is no point in fooling ourselves (as many of them do) that they have removed the need for models to explain the universe. They simply replace the creator god with their own model of creation (generally physical laws) which are no less beautiful, terrifying or indifferent than the creator god.

So, models are kind of necessary perhaps...not necessarily fixed though...or are they?
...

I've been trying now for a while to think off a way to put into words what I wish to express. I don't think I can. It comes down to something like this though, and forgive me if it seems rather simple :)

When we rid ourselves of all gods, all models and start from scratch what are we left with?

Can humanity survive if its survival means walking on a fixed path...not an ideal path because no such ideal can ever be achieved, but a path that is only fixed because it is preferable to all others?

nomad said...

What do we assume is fixed? In traveling I have been able to reset to a certain degree / only to find new reference points. They can be drastically different, but (to come full circle) surely any conscious action requires presupposition of a possible set of consequences?

Unknown said...

"When we rid ourselves of all gods, all models and start from scratch what are we left with?"

Perhaps that is the point at which we will transcend?

And you're right, of course, about how atheism is just a paradigm shift for the creation explanation. Well, it was on this kind of a point that I set out in the first place, in response to reading The God Delusion. I think more people need to admit that their reference points can be transformed, translated, or just done away with. Greater understanding of each other would be vastly expedited by greater understanding of ourselves.

In the end, in that way its all about the ego.